Re: Do I accept PAYPAL?
? ? ? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ?
Yes & No.
PayPal is fine for all website purchases.
I no longer will accept PayPal "directly" as a source of payment
for ebay auctions. You will see why below...
But I have come up with a work-around so that you
can still use your PayPal money and credit cards to end up with my auction
items.
Why do I no longer accept PayPay directly for ebay auctions?
~ There are several reasons:
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Choices. I like choices. I want my customers to have
choices. I want to be able to let the customer choose between
paying the price for insurance (which many people feel is a rip-off and
next to worthless in any event) or not paying for insurance and taking
the risk for themselves and saving a lot of money potentially over the
long run. I want to give my customers the choice between shipping
Overnight Express (big $) or shipping it Priority in a box (can be expensive),
or saving a lot of money and shipping it via Priority Flat Rate boxes &
envelopes. However since the USPS doesn't track Flat Rate envelopes overseas,
if I want PayPal to keep their grubby hands off my bank account, then PayPal
forces me to force my customers to only ship with insurance and only ship
the most expensive ways. This is bad for my customers and bad for
me. The more I force a customer to pay for things they don't necessarily
want or need, the more likely they are to go buy somewhere else. PayPal's
User Agreement Policy says I can't offer my customers a choice in regards
to shipping hoe the customer wants. This means I can't give my customers
a choice in regards to insurance how the customer wants. See
PayPal user Agreement section 13.6 subsection G: If the buyer claims
that the item was not received, the seller must be able to prove
that the item was delivered to the address listed on the Transaction Details
page by providing PayPal with a Viewable Online Proof of Delivery.
The Post Office doesn't track all items sent priority nor do they offer
an overseas Delivery Confirmation service. They only thing that the Post
Office offers would be Global Express (in many cases $100+) or sent Registered
Mail (an extra HUGE Fee on top of shipping). So we have several problems,
the customer looses by being forced to pay for services he doesn't need
or want. I loose if I don't force my customers to pay for the far more
expensive shipping, but that also means I loose customers who don't feel
that paying a shipping fee of $58 for a $10 item is justifiable. I know
I don't. See example #3 for how the USPS not offering
a tracking service for priority envelopes came back to bite me even though
I followed everything PayPal told me to to to the letter.
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Agreement. I like to have agreements. I want both my customers
and myself to know in advance what the sellers auction policies are before
bidding. But PayPal's ignores all wording and policies set forth in
writing on ebay ads. PayPal insists (and I don't have the money to fight
them in court) that their User Agreement legally trumps ALL Wording in
an ebay auction ad. For example if a seller puts in "Unknown Coin. I
found it while metal detecting in Italy. Not sure How old or what it is
worth. You decide. 99 cent auction. All Sales Final. Buyer pays Shipping.
No returns unless grossly misrepresented" PayPal can and does
make all wording, warnings, and policies put in writing invalid if PayPal
is accepted as payment. i.e. all sales are not final, Shipping is paid
by whomever PayPal decides should pay, and can force a return even on a
99 cent item. Even if the buyer admits in writing that he was just looking
and wanted to "touch" the item and wants to return it now. See
examples 1 & 2.
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Reasonable Control. I want my customers to be able to control their
business and hobby affairs and I want to be able to control my own. But
with PayPal, I have no reasonable control over my own business
affairs, and the horribly skewed directives from PayPal results in unfair
losses of large amounts of money and a huge amount of time wasted on the
phone with PayPal trying to get only a few issues resolved. I have heard
hundreds of horror stories on the license plate collectors newsgroups,
on the old typewriter newsgroups, on the Military Vehicle and the Jeep
newsgroups. I have read many
posts on the numerous "I Hate PayPay" web sites, yet still I tried
my luck with PayPal hoping I wouldn't get stung like so many others have.
I learned the hard way. It's been said that "3's the charm". Three
times getting a raw deal by PayPal's Resolution Center is all I am willing
to take.
Example #1. ebay auction:
I ran an auction for a repaired item. 7 days after receipt, the buyer
sent me an email saying he saw how I had made the repair, and was now going
to be able to repair the one he had the same way, so having seen how to
do it, he didn't need mine anymore. Because of my "No Questions Asked"
return policy, I sent him a refund minus the cost of shipping & the
ebay fees which is in the terms of the auction. He filed a claim with paypal
for a return of ALL fee's, and PayPal sided with him saying their policy
is that all shipping & fees had to be returned. So basically,
I paid the shipping & ebay fee's to teach someone how to fix something...
the last time I checked teachers got paid for their services and they don't
pay the student for the privilege of teaching. Refund
letter, envelope, and accounting that was ignored by PayPal.
Example #2. ebay auction:
I started the item at $1 with no reserve. Auction Rules clearly posted
as saying "7 day no questions asked return guarantee". The auction
ended with a snipe from a girl for $268. She wanted priority shipping,
to Canada. She also wanted it shipped with insurance that cost $6 and paid
for it all through PayPal. Total fees for shipping, insurance & paypal
& ebay fees were in excess of $36.
7 days pass, 14 days pass, 4 weeks pass, almost 60 days pass when the
girl apparently found a similar item cheaper and emails me that she wants
to return my item. At the same time she files a dispute with PayPal to
insure it gets my attention. Paypal immediately seizes the entire
amount ($268 + $36) from my account as is their policy. I was buying
things on ebay myself, and had earmarked the $300 to pay for a specific
rare and expensive item I had won. I was out the cash $ and I no longer
had the item since it was shipped off over 7 weeks ago. This left me $300
short on the money I needed to pay for my purchases on ebay. PayPal took
weeks, and despite over 10 phone calls by myself to PayPal pointing out
that I offered a 7 day "No Questions Asked Return" policy which was long
expired and it was now over 2 months, PayPal said to expect an additional
21 days of waiting while they investigated. - All the while I am out both
the inventory and the capital I need to buy additional inventory. I can't
run a business where the auction rules are so flagrantly ignored.
PayPal's response was "It doesn't matter what you say in your auction re:
7 days. By agreeing to use PayPal you have agreed to an indefinite return
and investigation time". I finally said "Fine, return the item so I can
resell it. I need to get back to business". Just under 2 weeks later
the buyer finally returned my item to me. My Auction clearly stated that
in the case of a return, that shipping is not refundable. Again,
in spite of clear contractual wording to the opposite, PayPal refund not
only the shipping, but the insurance as well. I basically paid
$36+ dollars out of my pocket to advertise on ebay the fact that I had
the item and then let a lookie-loo have it, touch it, and play with it
for over 2 months until she found another one cheaper somewhere else.
I'm not in the library business. You can't "check out" my items for
2 months as insurance while you keep looking for another one on the cheap.
I am not going to pay all expenses incurred if someone wants to look something
over in real life. If you want to look something over in real life
- that's fine, but not on my pocketbook - shipping is far too expensive
anymore to do that. And you have a reasonable time to do so - 7 days. In
the end, PayPal tied up $300 and my inventory for 3 months and I wasted
hours on phone calls trying to get either my merchandise or my money back.
PayPal doesn't care about the smaller businesses or their cash flow.
Example #3. ebay auction:
I ran several auctions, and shipped items to winners. A week later
I took a vacation. Upon my return from vacation I discovered that a winner
in Sweden says he didn't receive his item and has filed a PayPal dispute.
Yes, I believe him. I do not think he is scamming me... but watch how this
plays out once PayPal gets involved... I contacted PayPal by phone
and told them I wanted to replace the missing items asked if this was a
recommended procedure. I was told it was and to mail it with a delivery
confirmation. I boxed up the replacement items and in fact I DOUBLED the
order to make up for the fact that the guy has been waiting (Don't
you wish all businesses took care of their customers this way? It's
old school customer relations of being treated like I would want to be
treated). The USPS desk clerk said there is no such thing
as "Delivery Confirmation" for Overseas Priority Flat Rate Envelopes.
I didn't mail the box. I took it back home and called PayPal and said "Now
what?". The PayPal help desk person said to go ahead and mail it
and to use the Customs form ID number as the tracking number. I took
the box back to the post office (more gas & time spent waiting). The
USPS clerk again said that the Customs form ID # is not tracked for Priority
Flat Rate envelopes. I said "well I have to do something to get this
guy his stuff - He's been waiting". So I did what PayPal told me to do
and I mailed it - BUT before I did, I
took photos of the items, the additional free items I was throwing in,
the pre-addressed Priority envelope with the customs form all filled out,
and
I
took photos of the receipt I got from USPS. I went home &
entered the customs form # into the case as I was told to do by PayPal.
The customer in Sweden escalated the dispute to a Claim the next day saying
that PayPal had told him he had to do so to preserve his "rights" because
time was running out. 4 days later PayPal resolved the claim case
finding for the Swede, and refunded him all his $ and shipping. I
am out over $250 plus wear & tear & gas & time. I am
out the CASH ($58), I am out the ebay fees, I am out the 1st set that was
lost ($58 value), I am out the Replacement set sent ($58 value) and I am
out the additional set (another $58 value) that I threw in for free that
I sent with the replacement set. I am also out the 2nd Priority overseas
shipping cost of $13.
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
Upon review of claim number PP-514-367-xxx, the claim was closed in
the buyer's favor as the tracking number did not show online as being delivered
to the buyer. Once the tracking number shows that the item has
been delivered, we can appeal the claim. To appeal the decision,
we will need you to fax these documents from the post office to 1-402-537-5760
and be sure to write your claim number and your email address on all pages.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
Kathleen
PayPal Consumer Support / PayPal, an eBay Company |
I called PayPal and was furious with them. "I told you (PayPal) before
I shipped it, that the USPS said there will be no tracking of International
Flat Rate Envelopes.... USPS will never show it as "delivered". You (PayPal)
knew that before you told me to ship it because I informed PayPal about
that fact over the phone prior to shipping it per the 2nd set of instructions
from you (PayPal). I followed your (PayPal's) advice and did exactly
what I was told to do by PayPal". They said they refunded all the $ because
there was confirmation of delivery. I said "I know - I told you that
no way to track the USPS Priority Envelope when I called asking for a "what
to do I do next" answer.... And You, PayPal, told me to ship it anyway
and to use the customs number. I did everything you told me to do,
and by doing so you use that as the reason to take my $ from me.
That is an outrage. I have photos of the items; the Addressed envelope;
and the USPS receipt showing it was shipped". And that isn't reasonable
proof to PayPal that I shipped the item - That is ludicrous. Any reasonable
mutton head can expect with 99.99% certainty that I sent the guy his stuff.
The standard instructions to a jury in a a civil murder case such as OJ
Simpson's 2nd trial is "Beyond a reasonable doubt". I'd say my proof
is far far beyond a reasonable doubt.
http://members.aol.com/safari4x4/MailedReceiptDocuments/DSCN5120.JPG
http://members.aol.com/safari4x4/MailedReceiptDocuments/DSCN5121.JPG
Lastly, I offer insurance on my items. In the interest of giving the
customer what he wants, I let him decide if he wants to take out insurance
or not. If he doesn't take it out, then he is informed that he accepts
the risk of loss. These are the same policies I have had for over a decade
with no problems until I started to accept PayPal.
As written on my
SHIPPING web page and in all my ads for over 10 years...
SHIPPING OPTIONS:
Buyer pays shipping. I won't demand you spend
more on postage than is necessary. If you're buying several auction
items, and want to combine orders to save on postage, that's fine. Shipping
charges on my billing reflect my cost. My goal is to keep your shipping
costs down. I will ship item the most practical way I can; either
UPS, USPS, Priority, Priority Flat Rate, Parcel Post, Standard Ground.
INSURANCE:
if you want insurance, tell me, and
include the extra fee in your payment.
If you don't want it, that's fine too, but I can only
offer sympathy should something bad happen. It's your call.
USPS & UPS both charge extra for insurance.
Insurance Fees Below (Insurance Coverage Fee is in addition to Postage)
But when PayPal is involved, PayPal is insisting that they have the power
to over ride me and expect me to provide buyers a service (Insurance) that
they didn't pay for. If fact, not only didn't they pay for it, they
clearly refused and opted out of it. The onus is on the customer
if he refuses insurance. In this instance I believe the customer when he
says he didn't get the item the 1st time. But for PayPal to make
me lose $245 ($58 cash refunded + 3x $58 in merchandise lost + $13 for
2nd shipping cost) + unknown amount for ebay fees and PayPal fees because
a buyer turned down and refused to use insurance when it was offered is
infuriating.
UPDATE: The Buyer in Sweden sent payment to me once the
replacement items arrived in Sweden. So I have no bad feelings towards
the buyer at all. He did nothing wrong and I would do business with him
again with no problem. The Problem I have is strictly with PayPal.
1.) PayPal's procedure of pulling funds out of my account and sitting on
them for weeks, 2.) telling me to follow a their advice, and I did to the
letter, and they still gave my money away unjustly and wrongly (since the
customer was honest enough to repay me.), 3.) PayPal completely ignores
the set in writing rules of my auction that the bidder agrees to by bidding.
4.) that they expect me to give and pay for Postal Services like insurance
& registered letters, when the customer has not paid for such services,
5.) The length of time they allow fraudulent claims cases by buyers to
be opened against sellers and tie up funds that were closed and spent elsewhere
long after the sale.
Conclusion:
I lay all the rules out in black & white print ahead of time.
I follow the rules. I called PayPal for advice prior to making a move and
then did exactly as PayPal told me to do; and I took photographic evidence
of what I have done to cover myself and I saved receipts.... If I do all
that and I still lose hundreds of dollars.... then there is something
seriously wrong with the PayPal system! PayPal is a great convenience.
But I can't run a business where such atrociously arbitrary edicts and
summary findings are in place. Where PayPal so flagrantly and arrogantly
does not exercise sound judgment, nor follow the established rules of common
law, contract law, and the rules of Incoterm (Wikipedia:
Incoterm: international commercial terms are a series of international
sales terms widely used throughout the world) between a seller &
a buyer. PayPal is not logical in their application of evidence,
and the balance is too far skewed in favor of an internet population that
unfortunately contains occasional Scammers, Hoaxers, Spammers, Hackers
and other malicious and unscrupulous individuals. And even in
the case of a guy honestly missing an item, where I did my best to "Do
the right thing" and paid out of my own pocket to replace and double his
order, I get screwed by PayPal themselves - to the tune of 4x what the
item was worth. I would have lost less money if I had throw it in the
trash instead of putting it on ebay and accepting PayPal. I am not in the
business of losing money. Like any reasonable man I need to be able to
provide for my family and not live in fear that PayPal will come and raid
my bank account over a valid sale closed 2 months prior.
And that is why I will no longer directly accept
PayPal for payment on my auctions.
Solution in Re: Ebay Auctions: A Fair & Equitable Work Around:
I will still accept PayPal for online purchases from my website. Apparently,
on non-ebay-auction items, my policies are held to be in effect, whereas
on an ebay auction with PayPal payment they are invalidated by PayPal.
I think the rules are more than fair and should be valid. Since I have
taken the time to set up fair policies and guidelines and write them down,
and the buyer has taken the time to read them, and if the bidder proceeds
to bid, then they are agreeing to conduct business according to the policies
as written out. Fair is fair, and an agreement is an agreement. That is
all I am asking for. The same policies I've had for 20 years.
So if you want to use money in your PayPal account or a credit
card to pay for auction items from me, then it is a 2-step process.
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You use PayPal to purchase a Brian's Military Jeeps of WWII Gift Certificate
for the amount due.
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Send me an email after the auction ends and tell me you want to use your
PayPal money.
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I will send you a PayPal invoice for a gift certificate in equal value.
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You pay for the BMJ Gift Certificate using your PayPal account. This will
complete this transaction.
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I will email you a Gift Certificate Redemption # for our records.
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Send me an email telling me which auction(s) you want to apply your Gift
Certificate to.
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I will send a confirmation email to you that I am redeeming your gift certificate
as payment for the auction.
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This will complete the separate ebay auction transaction and I will ship
you your items.
So if you are an overseas customer, or a customer who doesn't want to wait
for checks and Money Orders to get mailed & delivered, then there is
still this way to use your PayPal funds. ~ Purchase a Brian's Military
Jeeps Gift Certificate from my website and use it like cash to pay for
my items including my ebay auctions. We both come out ahead. You
can still use your internet PayPal money or credit cards, and I know that
we have both agreed to abide by the rules as set forth in writing
To use your PayPal account to purchase a Gift certificate in any amount,
just email me at ww2jeep@gmail.com
Thanks,
Brian
Please don't pirate my pictures or text. Ask
my permission.
Copyright
© 1998-2009 Brian French. All Rights Reserved
